Full text of the interview
Ten O’clock: Dialogue with the guest of the day.
Joining us this morning the chairman of the Royal Advisory Council for Saharan Affairs, which is here in the Canary Islands in the framework a visit. Khalihenna Ould Errachid
did I pronounce it well?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: very good
Journalist: Good morning
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: good morning
Journalist: welcome
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: Thank you, Thank you very much
Journalist: Is the visit taking place in an attempt to change public opinion in the Canary Islands, over the Sahara?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: to some extent, we came to explain to our brothers in the Canary Islands that the only possible solution to this conflict in the Sahara is autonomy. This is the only solution which satisfies all parties and only viable for implementation. We want our friends, neighbors, relatives and brothers in the Canary Islands to help us in the implementation of this great that would change Morocco.
Journalist: The United Nations says self-determination for the search for a solution and Sahrawis want independence? Are you a Sahrawi?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: Yes, certainly, I am from the Sahara, from Laayoune. I have absolutely no complex in this regard, but autonomy is not incompatible with the will of the United Nations for the implementation of self-determination.
Autonomy is a good form of self-determination, but autonomy does not mean separation and self-determination does not necessarily lead to secession, but can also lead to self-government as is the case in Spain, where autonomy is a success not only for us but also a model for all Europeans
Journalist: a Sahrawi is he Moroccan?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: Sahrawis are of Moroccan origin, Moroccan by feelings and by history but they have specificities and identity and self-government seeks to maintain that identity, the character model rooted in historical Sahrawi tradition within the framework of the Kingdom of Morocco, as was always the case.
Journalist: autonomy, such as what is in the Canary Islands in Spain?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: such as what is in the Canary Islands in Spain
Journalist: independent government?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: self-government includes the political, economic, social and cultural aspects ie Saharan identity and personality.
Journalist: the position you occupy now was is it thanks to the King of Morocco?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: certainly
Journalist: Do you really believe so?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: Certainly
Journalist: This is not autonomy?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: Corcas is the Royal Advisory Council for Saharan Affairs, not self-government; it is a body charged with the preparation of this autonomy, we should not confuse things, the Royal Advisory Council will prepare for the implementation of self-government, but we are not self-government. Self-government bodies shall be elected by Saharans within of democratic, free and fair framework.
Journalist: Khalihenna Ould Errachid chairman of the Royal Advisory Council for Saharan Affairs, who was chosen by the King of Morocco, studied engineering, speaks fluent Spanish. Spain has a role to play in this framework which should be self-government, while Polisario in the Sahara, and in the occupied areas should be through a referendum.
What is the role to be played by Spain this context, since the Sahara was a Spanish province?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: exactly province No. 53, and this is why I am Spanish and many of Saharans too, we were Spain for a very long time.
Spain's role in this issue is very important, and Spain is the country closest to Morocco; it has friendly, good neighbor relations and political cooperation with Morocco. It is clear that Spain should play a key role in this case. Sahara is not occupied by Morocco. This is just a propaganda used to influence the feelings of the Spanish people and the international community. Sahara was never occupied by Morocco. Morocco is in the Sahara because it signed a maritime agreement and got Spanish approval in 1975, as was the case in all parts of the Kingdom of Morocco, which were under Spanish occupation, and has since then regained them in successive phases. So as not to say something that does not exist, there is a conflict, it is true that the conflict in the Sahara is essentially an internal conflict. It is not an international conflict and due to Saharans seeking to have honourable place within the Kingdom of Morocco.
Journalist: Where were you on May 2, 1975?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: on May 2
Journalist: Do you remember?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: May 2 I was in Laayoune
Journalist: As president of PUN.....?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: PUNS
Journalist: PUNS
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: Yes, the National Saharan Unity Party
Journalist: Yes, and independence?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: we were the party who was looking for the road, we believed it was right. I was head of the state wished by Spain. This is true we cannot deny this history. However, I think I chose unity as the best solution in 1975; independence is not good for the Sahara. Sahara's independence means conflict between tribes; we have situations in Africa we see every day on TV: Somalia, Sierra Leone, Chad Sudan
The example is the independence of East Timor, permanent civil war and fighting between tribes is what can happen in an independent Sahara, conflict, fighting between tribes over goats or camels ..
Journalist: I know where you were in May 1975, you were in the Sahara and said on radio what follows:
# Now it is possible to speak clearly about Sahrawis problems, their goals, and self-determination for the Saharawi people. Many ideas have changed. It was agreed on the existence of the Saharawi people and the final independence of the Saharawi from colonialism and integration. I have met with Algeria, it has confirmed its position in the League of Arab States, the International Tribunal in The Hague, , its support for self-determination for the Saharawi people and for Sahara independence, we talked about our anti-colonialism and anti-expansion claims. After Beirut, the Party visited Cairo in Egypt. In Cairo, we met with the League of Arab States, the organization did not address the issue in depth until these two past years,
Journalist: It is your voice in 1975?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: Yes
Journalist: Well, you supported independence and self-determination and called on Arab states to help you, then you were supported by Algeria, are you grateful for that?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: Yes, because reality requires it. There was no possibility of implementing this idea, as you noted, I have always maintained the realism and moderation, including on May 7, 1975 I still hold the same pragmatism and realism. I have not changed in fact, I look forward to what is possible, what is truly in the interest of the Saharans. We seek what can be achieved, not dreams and ideals. We must find the real interests of Sahrawis. I have followed along this path, the path of real interests and that is why I opted for union with Morocco.
It is clear, in the context of this union, Saharans have their personality, management, and their political, economic, social and cultural rights, and this is what we want: we enjoy great identity within the Kingdom of Morocco, internationally guaranteed and secured by the people and the King of Morocco
Journalist: Amnesty International published a report on the violation of human rights in Western Sahara. It is a harsh report, Amnesty International said that there was a violation of the rights of the Sahrawi citizens who express their opinion on the streets What do you think?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: Look, I think that the United Nations has done a mission in the region. It sent the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, which is more neutral than Amnesty International to the region and Tindouf camps.
In Laayoune, they saw that things are more relative than is being said, there is a large exaggeration and exploitation so-called violation of human rights in the Sahara. Tt is true that there have been incidents of clashes between police and separatists, some young people, but only when these young people use violence. No person is detained in the Sahara because of his opinion, at all, everyone has the freedom to express their views and this why there is no violation in the Sahara of the basic human rights.
But I am very concerned about what Amnesty International should do about the situation in the Tindouf camps: lack of basic human rights, right to freedom of movement, mobility, and ability to acceede to housing and livelihoods. I can assure you that there are no systematic human rights violations in the Sahara.
Journalist: Some of the young people were killed during demonstrations?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: No, one died and it was an accident, the policeman accused of the death is in prison
Journalist: Are there pro-independence political prisoners in the Sahara
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: No, no one
Journalist: were they in the past?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: Yes it's true, but they are not political prisoners but because of incidents of violence. those who make political opinions are free and go to Canary Islands, Madrid and Brussels in the campaign against Morocco and then go back to Laayoune. The United Nations High Commissioner met with them, it was free to meet with them thanks to Morocco where there is respect for public opinion and the opinion of all people. We should not exaggerate; Polisario is trying to win the feelings of the Spanish when it claims that there is violation of human rights, this is not true. We are Sahrawis, How can we torture ourselves? This is impossible. I am the mayor of Laayoune. I Shall never agree to torture the people of my country, my cousins, my family, this is not true.
Journalist: free elections
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: self-government, when Polisario agrees, when Polisario comes back, signs autonomy and leaves entrenched positions, I also want you to ask me about Polisario.
Journalist: We are pleased to question about Polisario
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: Yes, Polisario has to leave the hardening of its attitudes and sign autonomy as soon as possible so that we can end this conflict.
This conflict has caused unbearable suffering, separation of many families, it is sterile, did not contribute to anything in the region, this conflict led to the delayed construction of the Maghreb, and delayed development and progress. This conflict did not bring anything positive, what is the positive thing brought by conflict? Nothing, nothing at all. Only because Polisario have been used to be in the service of the unique opinion and unique thought.
Journalist: There is no democracy in the Polisario Front?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: none at all since 1976, there is no democracy in the Polisario. The same leaders who have been running Polisario since 30 years. There is no pluralism, there is no possibility of another view, other than advocating independence. This is not freedom, and tyranny is prevailing.
Journalist: United Nations called for a referendum for self-determination in the Sahara, why don’t you support this proposal?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: Well, I agree, but the United Nations chose a system of self-management, especially for the Sahara issue, and said that they want to do a referendum on the basis of identification, a very important word: identification;
Who is the Sahrawi?
Who are his cousins?
Who are his brothers?
In order to find the legendary Saharawi people, in fact, it is true that there are Sahrawi people, but they are divided among several countries: Morocco, Mauritania, Algeria and northern Mali. In order to reach these legendary people who are our people, we need to change the borders of Algeria, northern Mali and Mauritania, to conduct free and fair referendum. It is clear that the issue is not easy, because no country has accepted to change its border. Therefore, referendum has failed, there is no possibility of doing it technically or politically. The options we have before us are as follows: either to stay where we are, closed borders, living in camps in inhuman conditions or move towards the only possible solution to meet all the, political, economic and social claims of Sahrawis.
Journalist: Who will have control in the Enlarged autonomy?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: at a large scale,
Journalist: will not last three days?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: who would control autonomy?
the winner of the elections
Journalist: Who guarantees self- government?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: certainly, it is not a political maneuver, is the strategic option, Morocco will change as well. The King of Morocco is a modern young man and wants to change the situation in Morocco. Morocco wants to be a model of democracy, progress and openness in the Arab world, Morocco, wants to change in order to solve the problem of the Sahara.
Journalist: in The Government of the Canary Islands, you spoke with the President?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: No, I did not see the President, but we have seen members of the Government
Journalist: Did you see government delegate?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: Yes
Journalist: What did he say, does he support self-government?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: Yes, as well as the deputy speaker of parliament.
Journalsit? Government Delegate
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: Yes
Journalist: Does he support autonomy?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: Yes
Journalist: Do you think he is with self-government?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: Exactly, and believes that autonomy is the best option and only possible with all he has got of experience
Journalist: What about the Bilda Deputy Speaker of the House?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: Yes
Journalist: he also supports self-government?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: Yes, and asked me to request mediation between us and the Polisario Front
Journalist: mediation
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: mediation
Journalist: Alfredo Belda What did he say?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: he accepted to talk to them and will serve the process of self-government
Journalist: the Government, political forces, the Socialist Party and the Alliance of the Canary Islands are with self-government?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: I think so, this is the last solution that would satisfy all parties
Journalist: Do you want to persuade Polisario to join all Saharans?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: of course, self-government should not exclude anyone, especially our brothers from the Polisario Front, which represents only a portion: a minority of Saharawis.
Journalist: Do you want the capital of the Canary Islands to invest in the Sahara?
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: autonomy is an opportunity for the Canary Islands. The Canary Islands will be the main partner with autonomy for economic development, close relationships, development of tourism, services, fishing, and minerals.
Journalist: Thank you for coming here this morning
Khalihenna Ould Errachid: thank you